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Hello,
I figured that this group would be a good place to introduce myself and my perhaps unique, perhaps normal, relationship situation.
For the last two years, I've been in a loving but perhaps limited relationship. I suppose to be honest we started out as "friends with benefits", but we grew into more than that, while less than a couple. I'm still trying to figure out what it will become, but I can't deny that what I was missing all along was simple intimacy, which is one thing that I find to be precious and rare. I was willing to change some of my more casual interactions with other FWB or poly folks in my personal "intimate network" -- was willing to become monogamous, in other words. This leads to all kinds of vulnerabilities, but I think it is worth it.
I've also attended "cuddle parties" and realized that nonsexual physical affection is something that I need as well. That doesn't have to be from a partner -- but trying to draw that line is difficult. A lot of people don't understand where those lines are.
My relationship has become a long-distance one. I want to remain sexually monogamous while going out and having a good time in safe, consensual ways with people that are geographically more available.
Is this unusual? Most people consider relationships to be "package deals" but I might want to do things with someone, not necessarily my usual partner, that aren't really dates but are social or affectionate. Like hanging out with a friend, cuddling or holding hands at the movies, that sort of thing.
I'm sort of living in a nether-world between strait and bisexual, monogamous and poly, a single and a couple, I am trying to find meaning and pleasure.
Just curious if this experience resonates with anyone else's
Chris
I figured that this group would be a good place to introduce myself and my perhaps unique, perhaps normal, relationship situation.
For the last two years, I've been in a loving but perhaps limited relationship. I suppose to be honest we started out as "friends with benefits", but we grew into more than that, while less than a couple. I'm still trying to figure out what it will become, but I can't deny that what I was missing all along was simple intimacy, which is one thing that I find to be precious and rare. I was willing to change some of my more casual interactions with other FWB or poly folks in my personal "intimate network" -- was willing to become monogamous, in other words. This leads to all kinds of vulnerabilities, but I think it is worth it.
I've also attended "cuddle parties" and realized that nonsexual physical affection is something that I need as well. That doesn't have to be from a partner -- but trying to draw that line is difficult. A lot of people don't understand where those lines are.
My relationship has become a long-distance one. I want to remain sexually monogamous while going out and having a good time in safe, consensual ways with people that are geographically more available.
Is this unusual? Most people consider relationships to be "package deals" but I might want to do things with someone, not necessarily my usual partner, that aren't really dates but are social or affectionate. Like hanging out with a friend, cuddling or holding hands at the movies, that sort of thing.
I'm sort of living in a nether-world between strait and bisexual, monogamous and poly, a single and a couple, I am trying to find meaning and pleasure.
Just curious if this experience resonates with anyone else's
Chris
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Unsu...
Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Thu, June 14, 2007 - 5:04 PMHi Chris,
Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. One of the things that I love about my group of friends is that they're a generally friendly, affection group of people. We greet each other with hugs, and if we're hanging out on a couch, we're often cuddled up with each other, or half sitting on each others' laps. Sometimes there's sexual attraction present, sometimes there isn't, but it's mostly a matter of closeness, affection, and care for one another.
So I don't think it's unusual to want physical, though not sexual, intimacy with people. Humans are social creatures, and we like touch. You may need to check in with people every so often if sexual attraction does start to be present, but so long as you're comfortable holding boundaries, that should work fine.
Best of luck with your relationship, and finding people to snuggle up with. -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 8:51 AMThanks for your comment.... That must be great to have friends like that. I've seen groups of people like that, mostly college students or groups of pagans who have known each other for some time, and it always challenges my own sense of boundaries. Maybe it's because I'm naturally empathic, but I've always felt that I project an aloofness that keeps those friendly touchy-feely people away while at the same time I am drawn to their easy affection. It's really not as easy for me, which is probably why I went to the "cuddle party" workshop that creates an artificial community in a safe environment - everyone there makes a verbal agreement to respect the boundaries of the other participants. I am trying to expand my sense of boundaries, while of course setting strong enough ones to keep the "predatory" types away .. it's a delicate balance.
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Thu, June 14, 2007 - 5:18 PMI can't say from experience but I've heard that the only reason people don't hold hands more in the US is social... that in other countries it's not uncommon for platonic male friends to hold hands walking through the park for example... There does seem at least from my purely subjective experience that there's a lot of if not outright homophobia at least social influence of homophobic ideas in the US... hence, two guys walking in the park holding hands must therefore be a gay couple in the mind of a lot of onlookers, even if there's nothing wrong with homosexuality in that particular onlooker's view. I don't see anything wrong with or even particularly unusual about what you've expressed. You're human and therefore complex. :) -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 9:03 AMThanks for your post. I'm sure that there are cultural variations to all kinds of behavior. Like in college we all felt so radical and strange when challenging the norms by finding an attractive person and sleeping next to them fully-clothed, not having sex. I am not sure why this felt like such a taboo-breaking thing, why it was so liberating, whether it was just to somehow "proove" that you could be physically affectionate without being sexual but I noticed this happened a lot in college. By the same token, my more sexually open and "experimental" friends in college would have sex with people but only hold hands in public if that person was "really special" -- it seems like our notions of intimacy now are so backward compared to more conservative times in history, where somehow every interaction has become so sexualized that we've become afraid of showing affection lest it be interpreted the "wrong way". I agree that it's all a matter of perspective, but it can be hard to challenge the so-called "norms", especially when you can't necessarily assume that what is normal for you is normal for someone else. -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 12:16 PMVery true, especially given that most of what we think is subliminal or unconscious... that's the reason we have social norms in the first place really, because so much of our thought boils down to subconscious conditioning... I've been thinking about this a lot recently because of the book I've been writing and my recent research into the evolution of behavior for the purpose of the book... I'm a spiritualist rather than a determinist, but the book has been an attempt to integrate those philosophies (rather than perpetuating the evolution vs. creation debates). In my research the conclusion I've come to is that humans basically don't understand *most* of their own behavior, much less the rest of the world... and that because behavior depends to a greater extent on subliminal conditioning, we're not really naturally objective... and that makes understanding behavior and "social norms" in particular rather difficult because so terribly much of it is necessarily taken for granted... as an example I love this Time Magazine article about the science of disgust www.time.com/time/magazi...5167,00.html Something I noted in particular about that article is that they mention a demonstration where a guy dips a sterilized roach in a glass of orange juice and asks if anyone wants to take a sip of it... which is a great demonstration *especially* (in my opinion) because it probably wouldn't work in china where you can buy scorpions to eat by the scoop-full. It's precisely the sort of thing we take completely for granted -- which leads to people here who really have the best intentions and want to be helpful raising a big fuss about bug parts in chocolate (for example) when there's no objective reason to believe that in particular is really hurting us -- this is talked about a bit more in my book but it seemed relevant here :) -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 2:30 PMInteresting thought .... Ever since I separated from my husband, more than four years ago, I've been in a process of re-assessing my thought patterns and habits, looking deeper into my own behavior than I did before. Not just through joining groups like CODA and through therapy, but through writing, journaling, and talking to other people I meant who as relative strangers often saw things I was too close to see. Perspective is an amazing thing. Unlike many divorced people, I don't feel the need to waste energy hating my ex-husband, in fact I have an unconditional love for him and want him to be as happy as he can be. I only needed to hate and be angry to re-claim my power -- now that he is not in my life, he is no longer a "threat", and I don't need to deliberately attract people into my life that connect back to those issues anymore. There is a certain pattern that comes with long-term emotional abuse -- I had to recognize that pattern, recognize the way it made me feel and bring it all back to myself, not projecting it on my ex or his shadow as some kind of boogey-man. It's amazing how much of my life changed when I realized that I had that kind of control -- that I didn't have to flinch at shadows anymore.
Because I've considered myself out of the "norm", but I've also come from a place where I've started to look at the beliefs that led to certain emotions that led to certain behavioral triggers (I do find cognitive psychology enormously helpful for this) I've also been question what those "norms" really are -- am I trying to define myself by what I was not, or by who I am? Sexuality and relationships are areas where people have a strong belief about what they believe to be "normal" or "healthy" -- and those beliefs can vary strongly among individuals. (I've had die-hard polyamorists tell me that I am deceiving my boyfriend in some way because I went to a poly meet-up at a diner and didn't bring him. I don't see anything deceptive in that because I feel that polyamory is a part of my history but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with my behavior now -- it's something I believe in even if I'm not practicing it actively.) I've also realized that for some people serial monogamy is just a "given", that it is not a special sign of any significant commitment, even though I personally know I would not be monogamous without feeling "committed" to that person.
It's like we are all using the same words, but speaking a totally different language. That is what facinates me and frustrates me. That is what stimulates thought and conversation. But I believe that this questioning is all part of the journey towards having healthy relationships that allow for growth and authenticity of all parties involved - that are not two-halves-made-whole, but whole people sharing their lives and their energy and their stories with each other..... -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 2:59 PM<<< It's like we are all using the same words, but speaking a totally different language. That is what facinates me and frustrates me. That is what stimulates thought and conversation. >>>
Yeah, conditioning is by its nature complex, largely accidental and very "unstable", leading to each individual being slightly to wildly afield of the statistical averages. I apparently tend to be wildly afield of statistical averages. Which has been problematic for me in a number of ways... the subtlety of variance and the fact that language is subjective by its nature makes it frustrating to try and "know" things so I'm trying to give up trying to "know" things and just work on a "good bet".
<<< But I believe that this questioning is all part of the journey towards having healthy relationships that allow for growth and authenticity of all parties involved - that are not two-halves-made-whole, but whole people sharing their lives and their energy and their stories with each other..... >>>
Beautifully said... open to wild leaps of interpretation, and beautifully said. :)
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 10:06 PMThe example of men holding hands in public is often used as a putdown of American homophobia. In fact, it can be the opposite. For example it is common in India for male friends to hold hands when hanging out. But that doesn't mean homosexuality is widely accepted there. In fact homosexuality is so repressed there that nobody would think to interpret two guys holding hands as gay, because homosexuality is just so far beyond the pale that it isn't considered. Not sure what other countries you are talking about though; I've only ever heard of India for that. -
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Sun, June 17, 2007 - 7:52 AMgood point -- social conditioning is a rather complicated thing, lots of nuances and subtleties
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 12:53 AMthey do that in many muslim countries, too.
what you say is true. but there also is a sense of non sexual camaraderie between men that i dont often see in western countries.
i just think people are not so comfortable with expressions of affection that are different from what they are used to. we're all so ethnocentric about our shit.
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Tue, June 19, 2007 - 11:43 PMIt's all just words. Don't try to label things so much ("dates" or not, "relationship" or not, "Friends" or more). It's all really mostly irrelevant. Just enjoy the company of other people as you would like to in your life. And if it works for you and your life, then it is in no way "unusual." -
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Unsu...
Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Fri, June 22, 2007 - 3:06 AM"It's all just words. Don't try to label things so much ("dates" or not, "relationship" or not, "Friends" or more). It's all really mostly irrelevant. Just enjoy the company of other people as you would like to in your life. And if it works for you and your life, then it is in no way "unusual." "
I LOVE this Caine!!! SOOO well put. Simple, direct, to the point.
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Re: Newbie Introduction - Sexually Monogamous, Socially/Affectionally Poly
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 7:18 PMYes! Thanks for this.... One thing I have noticed lately is how much relationships are shaped (consciously or unconsciously) by my expectations. The more I expand my understand about myself, about what I want, how to communicate my feelings and intentions, the less I worry about meeting someone else's standards .... There are no "rules" .... things have always worked better when I've thrown out the imaginary rule book and just allowed myself to be fully present with someone I love.... My partner told me once when I said I would try to "make things work" that instead we should "let things work" ... which actually made sense to me, because since I've let go of a lot of the baggage about what I "should" or "should not" expect, things have felt a lot smoother and more intimate. And ultimately that smoothness, that genuine honesty is what I want in all my relationships.... As above, so below :)
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I'm in the EXACT same situation right now
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 1:13 PMI was previously living a poly life style. I was dating a few people here and there while being involved with a couple at the same time. About two months ago I started to realize my affections for a good friend of mine growing in a more romantic way (pretty much the only friend I wasn't intimately involved with really).
I told him about my feelings for him and from there we fell in love at a insane rate. After a few weeks of dating we decided we wanted to be monogamous, and I cut off my sexual interactions with others to focus on our relationship romantically.
The catch: I was moving 400 miles away in a month.
We both decided that our relationship was too important to end it there just because of the distance so were doing the long distance thing, and it's working out so far.
I've received, not criticism exactly from the people I was having relationships with previously, for they're all very happy for me, but slight uncertainty as to what exactly I'm doing and why. Most of these people were good friends of mine before we dated and continue to be so.
For me, not much feels like it's changed with them really, except, well, we don't have sex anymore. We cuddle, we hold hands, we give each other kisses, we fall asleep in each others arms, and it feels lovely. That is me, that is who I am. I've realized for myself, that identifying myself as poly or not is fruitless. Different things work with different relationships. Mine and my current partners relationship started off with a tone of extreme focus on each other, and it felt unnatural and seemed like we wouldn't be able to move forward together smoothly if we were to change that. Why change what works?
The next person I date the relationship may flourish in a different context, all relationships work on a gradient. Even within monogamy there is room to mold and shape to what fits both of you, and the balance that makes you two work as a together as one.